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Duration: 09:36 minutes Upload Time: 2007-12-23 02:58:54 User: ambassador1022 :::: Favorites :::: Top Videos of Day |
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Tags:
Bible God Jesus Christ Christian Christianity William Lane Craig Free Will Omniscience Predestination Foreknowledge
Description: A talk by Dr. William Lane Craig on this important question. |
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Comments | |
| masterofbox ::: Favorites 2008-01-12 13:01:28 if he is all powerful, all knowing and the creator, he set the stage and began the actions and reactions (that he already knew of) into motion. certainly a logical priority does not exist in a illogical state of omniscience. __________________________________________________ | |
| ByzantineChristian ::: Favorites 2007-12-27 22:06:53 How come that guy is talking without moving his mouth? __________________________________________________ | |
| vision4DaY ::: Favorites 2007-12-27 13:03:43 so if God creates and destroys certain E's in our timeline(or lifetime) he is shaping our "free will" by foreknowing what we will choose in certain situations (or E's). then we don't have "free will" but the will of God who is shaping our life by foreknowing what we choose dependig on the E's that is presented in our timeline by him. so his omniscience and his power to create situations(for if he couldn't then he would not have control of the world)or E's eliminates free-will. __________________________________________________ | |
| vision4DaY ::: Favorites 2007-12-27 13:01:43 God could destroy E by 1)not creating the tree of Knowledge and science or 2) by permitting Adam and Eve eat from the tree. If God did 1) or 2) before E happens and this caused E to be destroyed, then God created E by not Doing 1) or 2). which in case is true because God created everything. __________________________________________________ | |
| vision4DaY ::: Favorites 2007-12-27 12:58:11 But lets suppose that God does not create E but still foreknows what will occur if E were to happen. let the event of the snake, the tree of science and knowledge, and eve represent E. If God foreknew what eve was going to do, then why did he not take E out of the timeline? that way eve would have not eaten from the tree and his perfect creation would not have had to suffer the things we do now? __________________________________________________ | |
| vision4DaY ::: Favorites 2007-12-27 12:53:52 according to this:God foreknows what we will do if E exist, but if E does not exits then God can not foreknow what we will do for something that will not happen. But God created everything. so if E exist then God created E. __________________________________________________ | |
| petersibrahim ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 17:45:38 Salvation comes BECAUSE of Him, but He has given us free will to be able to choose to deny it or accept it. __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 03:18:01 and if we have the ability to reject him, then that means our salvation is in our hands, not his, thus not secure and truely eternal, cuz if we free willed in, we can freewill out. __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 03:17:16 theres simply no scripture to back that up. possesing a sin nature means that we cannot do good without something working in us. The bible tells us, on the topic of salvation, that there is "none who seeks, none who understands, none who stirs himself up to take hold of you". when we were DEAD in our trespasses, we were DEAD, DOA. How then did we become alive.ANSWER? GOD made that choice. __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 03:09:01 to say "if e were not to occur" constitutes a missing variable in this equation, because to continue his formula in completion he would have to add, that "if e were to occur without Gods predestination". and then that would change the outcome of his equation. follow?? __________________________________________________ | |
| ambassador1022 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 03:07:06 "the bible says that the will of man is wicked beyond deceit, and that we are bound to sin...i cannot find any 'freedom' in that to begin with" Possessing a 'sin nature' does not mean we do not have free will. Your conclusion is simply a non-sequitor. "why would we want a will seperate from Gods?" We wouldn't want a will seperate from Gods. The entire point here is that God allows us to CHOOSE to follow after Him or to reject Him. __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 03:04:57 yes hes saying exactly that...the point is God doesnt simply look into the future at all....hes there, and here and even in the past...thats what omniscience is, therefore, he is working and doing all things, and he is intimately involved with his creation "for we are his workmanship". he is constantly shaping us and molding us to be more like him. thats why sanctification is a process __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 02:59:19 Illustrating Further here: ok, the bible says that the will of man is wicked beyond deceit, and that we are bound to sin...i cannot find any "freedom" in that to begin with. but lets say we do have free will. why would we want a will seperate from Gods? and no it doesnt mean we can sit on the couch and not do anything, its a reason to Go and DO in the confidence of being led by the holy spirit. __________________________________________________ | |
| ambassador1022 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 02:54:11 "This guy is saying that there was a time, BEFORE GOD LOOKED INTO THE FUTURE" No he didn't. He was saying that if E were not to occur, God would not have known E. "thus i am compelled to respond in disagreement, because i dont believe gods foreknowlege is limited to our choices" It has nothing to do with God's foreknowledge being limited by our choices as you seem to assert. Rather, it has to do with God's foreknowledge being a representation of the FUTURE free choices we will make. __________________________________________________ | |
| jgm1234567 ::: Favorites 2007-12-24 02:44:47 and as far as his comment with the time line (illustrating 'E' as an event in time) if God has to look into the Future, to see if 'E' will happen, then This guy is saying that there was a time, BEFORE GOD LOOKED INTO THE FUTURE, that God didnt know something. thus i am compelled to respond in disagreement, because i dont believe gods foreknowlege is limited to our choices, but that it is our choices that are limited to Gods Fore-doing. ill post another comment to illustrate further __________________________________________________ | |
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